Have you ever wondered what drama therapy was all about, or whether this would be a useful modality to add to your portfolio of clinical skills?
To find out, I interviewed Noel McDermott, a licensed drama therapist and psychotherapist from England. Noel has 15 years of experience in working with individuals of all ages overcome anxiety, depression, trauma, addiction, loss, loneliness, and childhood abuse.
Some of you may already know Noel by his twitter handle @NoelMcDermott or through his website.
Hi Noel, Could you describe a bit of your background?
I studied to the post-graduate level in drama therapy 15 years ago. Prior to that I had been a professional actor and director working in community arts, and arts in health – using the arts to educate, inform and lead to change.
Additionally, I had been a senior manager in Social Services, working in both children and adults services. I have practiced as a drama therapist and psychotherapist in health, education and social services settings.
Now I work exclusively in private practice. I am registered (licensed) with the UK Health Professions Council.
What drew you into the mental health field?
The main influences on my moving into mental health were witnessing enormous need in my community arts work and in my other roles in social services and health.
Additionally, I saw how empowering and positive were therapy interventions via the arts therapies. Finally, I was drawn into the training due to my own mental health and well-being needs.
What led you decide to develop specialties in art and drama therapy?
Training in drama therapy was a natural choice for me because of my background in theatre. Over the years, I have expanded my practice into more generic psychotherapy and counseling approaches.
My connection with the arts goes back to my childhood, which was very troubled. But school and theatre, as well as other arts, helped me maintain some health, creativity and resilience as a child in the face of trauma.
The arts did it naturally in a sense, at school, without the need for a specialist therapist. Although these days, I would advocate for more preventative mental health work with kids in schools.
Could you describe for the layperson what drama therapy is?
Drama therapy is the intentional use of the healing aspects of play, drama and theatre with a person’s problems. Drama therapy works with these forms and helps people develop new insights into old problems, strategies for dealing with current issues, metaphors to give meaning, within an action-oriented therapy. This is maybe one of the differences from traditional talking approaches.
Typically. a drama therapist will want people to move things, try them out, give it a go, play around with something and so on. It incorporates practical life skills such as breathing properly, learning lines and rehearsing, developing scripts with psychological insight and developmental growth.
What aspects of drama therapy do you find the most enjoyable?
By far, the most fun things in drama therapy for me are using play. I am always astonished by the capacity of a person who may have experienced profound trauma or have been confronted by the loss of a dearly loved one to begin to play again in his/her life.
Play is so healing, as is laughter and joy. Playing allows us to take risks when we feel that we are too fragile to step into the world and take on new challenges.
What aspects of drama therapy do you find the most challenging?
Learning my lines 🙂 Seriously I am a bit bad at doing my own homework. Especially hitting the books to find new stories or myths to share with folk. Myths are such a rich sources of cultural and communal healing and knowledge, but I find it difficult to remember them when I need them.
I am constantly having Homer Simpson moments after sessions. Duh! I should have thought of that one to use. So I guess the biggest challenge is me….. But that is what my own personal work, continuing professional development and supervision is for.
How do you feel that drama therapy extends the ability of what you are able to do with a client?
I feel the art form lends itself naturally to real world situations through for example role play and then transforming those real world events into metaphor (the language of our inner world) through other drama forms such as mask work, body work, dream enactment and so on.
It can in this way provide a very accessible bridge between inner and outer realities and allow for a dialogue between the two. This happens in other forms as well but I sense that drama’s ability to enact events and then transform into real time tips it for me.
Can you share a mini case example of how you have worked with an unidentified or fictional client through drama therapy?
I remember work with a client who had experienced massive daily trauma growing up: parental violence, alcoholism, chaos, political violence, racism, poverty and neglect.
In a group session, we used an Inuit story about the choosing of a new shaman for the village. In the story the old Shaman choose the new one, who is then taken by spirits to an underworld and ritually tortured and broken by bad spirits. Then is remade by good spirits and brought back to the village.
This experience transforms the chosen one into the healer for the village. By enacting the story and playing the chosen one, the client was able to embody his/her tortuous and broken childhood as a possibility (of in the story becoming a healer) rather than a prison sentence.
The client was then able to extend this into his/her life and begin to reframe how he/she related to the world and begin to look for opportunities to change, transform and grow.
Do you find that engaging in this modality of therapy helps you take in less of the trauma from the patients i.e., minimize the risk of secondary trauma?
In terms of trauma, definitely using metaphors and arts approaches lessen the impact of secondary trauma and also re-traumatization. Especially if the trauma the client experienced involved large amounts of shame.
For example, some for the refugees I have worked with had experiences in the rape camps during the Balkans conflicts or some of the refugees from Africa experienced similar atrocities. Not having to immediately name the trauma, but place it within a mythic structure can be very helpful.
The myths and stories provide a very powerful container. As you know, narrative approaches can have serious limitations in the context of overwhelming shame.
Re dealing with secondary trauma, it is vital that the practitioner look to their needs, if they find themselves in either an omnipotent or overwhelmed position, then they need to see that as a very serious warning sign. Practitioners need to have regular supervision when dealing with clients with serious trauma to be able to process this and keep themselves safe.
Oh, what powerful, touching work you have done…have these refugees been able to move on from those atrocities committed thanks to your drama therapy?
I managed services for refugees in social services for many years here in the UK. I have worked with some directly clinically and I have provided others with links into other services. Yet others, I am referring to work from other clinicians. So I am giving you an amalgam of all of that.
In terms of moving on, I wouldn’t say any of them magically healed from any one intervention. It’s just too complicated to suggest that. I feel that what happened was that people were able to repair elements of the damage and then move on to repair other elements through others means.
So the drama therapy helped bring back meaning, some fun, ability to tolerate another person, ability to be in a group. The clinical psychologists used CBT to deal with flashbacks, startle responses, etc. The psychiatrists helped with anti-depressants, the priests and Imams etc helped with faith and so on.
The possibility of the arts and drama is that it taps into powerful trans-cultural forces. But it can’t heal the damage of a whole society on its own; that would be omnipotent thinking 😉 It has its place though in getting people back in touch with creativity, play, laughter…
Finally, what career advice would you offer upcoming graduate students interested in adding drama therapy into their portfolio of clinical skills?
Drama therapy adds great skills to your clinical repertoire. It allows you as a clinician to engage directly with clients through playing with them, for example and developing energetic transferences that can be transformative.
It allows for the exploration of real world events as they are, not mediated by interpretation but valued as direct phenomena. It will give the clinician more confidence on the ‘doing’ bits of therapy.
It’s lots of fun and laughs and a great antidote to the sadness and traumas we deal with day-in and day-out. Its energy and action-focus can help us as people and professionals not get over-involved in the internal and balance that with the external.
Thanks so much, Noel, for providing us with this fascinating peek into how powerful and valuable drama therapy may be in a clinician’s toolbox!
What questions and/or thoughts about this modality come to your mind?
Drama therapy sounds like such an interesting modality to engage in. Thanks, Noel, for sharing all this great info!
Are there any books that you would recommend to a newbie interested in learning more about this modality?
a few spring to mind:
From the UK: Phil Jones, ‘Drama as therapy, Theatre as Living’
From the US: Robert Landy, ‘Persona and Performance: the Meaning of Role in Drama and Everyday Life’
I feel a core psychotherapy text our profession is indebted to is Donald Woods Winnicott, ‘Playing and Reality’
Kind regards
Noel
Great interview! It’s really interesting for me because I only had a vague notion of dramatherapy. Thanks for sharing 🙂
Thanks so much, cb – I’m so glad to hear that you enjoyed the interview 🙂
I too had only a vague idea of what drama therapy was prior to Noel providing me with the pleasure of this interview.
We did not cover this modality at all in the normal curriculum at my school. It’s possible that one could have taken an elective class on this topic but I’m not sure.
My only real-life experience with the benefits of drama is in the classroom. It was amazing to watch the transformation of some children when they participated in drama activities. As Noel mentioned, the laughter that ensued was good medicine for all!
Noel brought up an important point: in recovery, a variety of methods and modalities are needed.
In our own journey to learn, change and grow I believe this is also true.
Thanks so much, Marianna, for sharing some of your experiences with drama and children.
How wonderful that you were able to see some of the positive effects of transformation take place within the scope of regular drama 🙂
Yes, I agree with you and Noel on the idea of needing a variety of methods and modalities – perhaps we also need a number of different mentors/teachers to guide us along our journey of healing…
Fascinating post. I used psychodrama quite a bit in my adult children of alcoholics therapy groups many years ago–it was a very powerful, transformational treatment method. However, the unscripted nature of psychodrama meant we were never really sure where it was going, so having a co-therapist (especially one who was more skilled in psychodrama than I) was especially helpful.
Noel, would you consider psychodrama a sub-type of drama therapy, or something different? I can hear that drama therapy is much broader.
Really enjoyed this interview and subsequent posts – thank you all :o)
As a qualified drama therapist and storyteller myself its lovely to hear the enthusiasm and interest in this valuable work. There is no doubt in my mind, stories, drama and play can be powerful ways for people to discover more about who they are and to develop and enjoy their own unique individuality and self expression.
As Noel says in this interview, stories can become the container – allowing people the freedom to express and release …. movement is key to the process … stories, especially the ancient world stories of myth and legend hold many insights into the human condition .. And in this day and age help us all to identify with loss, love, adventure and humour – to name but a few!
My experience facilitating drama therapy groups using stories has been rich and diverse … however there is one line someone wrote after a session I ran last summer to sum it up .. “Thank you – I really came alive.”
Alex
Alex@story-well.com
@Mariannna, there is a lot of wisdom in what you say Marianna and certainly we haven’t in any sense nailed down the human condition. And I’d add that what is therapeutic is indeed a very broad field and one that grows, thankfully.
It does bring up a question in regards to what counts as therapy in the drama. I would say that part of the answer is in the notion of ‘intentional’ and that the focus is on dealing with a client or groups problems, specifically the psychological, emotional and developmental.
The therapist will be thinking about the material arising in the situation with the client or the group and making decisions on what might be an effective intervention and then evaluate the impact and so-on.
Which links to @njsmith question about use of a modality by someone not trained in it and also what links exist in regards to psychodrama and dramatherapy.
Firstly the use of drama and also psychodrama techniques isn’t going to be dangerous in any sense. As long as the practitioner is sufficiently grounded in general developmental or psychological or psychotherapeutic theory etc
Having said that I would never discourage the use of the arts in any way. Just do t and deal with it 🙂
I guess NJ the issue is more about bringing about specific and specified therapeutic change. With a qualified and experienced practitioner one would expect the outcomes to be more clearly definable. So the qualified practitioner will be clearer that a particular intervention is more appropriate for an particular situation and will have a greater oversight of the process of change and recovery.
Psychodrama and drama therapy are related but also distinct disciplines. Psychodrama evolved from psychodynamic theory specifically and dramatherapy has broader influences including for example, theatre modes, play and so on. Dramatherapy includes a broad range of psychological practitioners including clinical psychologists, nurses, teachers, social workers.
But I guess these days we all look to the areas where we meet?
Alex, lovely to meet you here on this blog, join me on Twitter mate 🙂
What a great piece, thank you! I am an avid believer and practitioner in drama therapy and have used it effectively with at risk youth and clients with eating disorders with much success.
It is an invaluable tool!
Warmly, Dr. Deah Schwartz, http://www.leftoverstogo.com
Dr Schwartz,
Thanks so much for your kind feedback and for sharing how you have used drama therapy in your practice.
How interesting that you have found it applicable to clients with eating disorders.
I would love to hear a mini example of how you would employ it with such a client…
Best,
Dorlee
i have heard first time about drama therapy:)
Therapy
A number of people have commented that this is the first time they have come across drama therapy and the arts therapies as therapeutic modalities and it seemed like a good opportunity to maybe begin to provide an answer as to why they maybe don’t have a higher profile. Especially as the arts are hardly a new or hidden phenomenon!
I can only answer partially and personally and from a largely UK perspective, so if there are any contributors – please pitch in 🙂
Theses disciplines are relatively new. The earliest recorded use of the term art therapy in the UK was during the second world war, when it was employed in work with soldiers recovering from what we now call PSTD (post traumatic stress disorder). Prior to that, the arts would have been used as occupational therapies. Activities built into an occupational or rehabilitative schedule of a person usually in institutional care.
In the UK, this link with hospital and institution-based work persists with many therapists finding their main income via that route. Research conducted in the UK and specifically in Scotland showed that arts therapies tend to be represented in psychiatric hospital settings but not known in the community mental health team setting.
Arts’ therapists can also be found in school settings etc. But not in primary care settings such as GP surgeries. They tend to employ therapists with a CBT orientation, if they employ any at all.
So, in short, it is not surprising that you and many others may not have heard before of drama therapy or the other arts therapies such as art or music therapy. It’s a function of what modalities are predominately used and where
Dorlee and Noel! Thanks so much for this blog post! I look for opportunities both in and out of the clinical hour to use two types of drama therapy – Playback Theatre and Theatre of Oppression. I’m always looking for others here in Colorado who are either interested in learning or are already using these techniques.
Thanks, Tamara – I’m so glad that you found this post on drama therapy helpful 🙂
Hello Noel and Dorlee,
I’m currently in graduate school on this very path, using my academic path as a MSW to become a drama therapist and hopefully potential art director. However, I am relatively young (late 20s) and I really want to have a career as an actor/writer and gain prominence in these fields first as these are my true passions.
I am asking for advice on whether to end my degree early and delve into acting and play/screenwriting completely, or develop both projected futures simultaenously–ie, continue schooling while performing until graduation?
I realize this is a complicated question, but as a person who loves both therapy and theatre/tv, I’m having difficulty consolidating the two.
Cheers!
Hello anonymous 🙂
I can’t and wouldn’t give you advice on which direction to take. I can advice you on the sorts of thing you can do that may help you come to a decision yourself though.
1) Chat with family and or friends about your quandary and listen to their thoughts. They know you well generally. You don’t have to act on what they say but often people can surprise you with new insights, or even remind you of useful old ones
2) Speak to a professional careers advisor and look at the different routes available to you. Draw up pro’s and cons lists etc
3) keep options open as long as possible
4) Visit folk who are practicing in your fileds and ask them how it has been
5) talk to your teachers at college/school and see what their opinions are
Hope some of this helps..
Kind regards, Noel